Our guest on the show today is Brent Dowling. Brent has a unique background that you get to hear about during this episode. The focus today though is Brent’s history at building multiple brand through a growing franchise company of just a few units into an industry leading organization requires the precise combination of marketing, sales and organizational strategy. After building Raintree Brent discovered Voodoo Brewing company and he was hooked. What started as a simple brewing operation and pub in Meadville, PA has evolved into one of the top-rated breweries in the country, and now their taking the laid-back pub atmosphere, delicious eats, and- of course- the liquid to cities all over the U.S. When you break it down, there are some damn good reasons why smart people invest in a Voodoo Brewing Co. brewpub franchise. and Brent Dowling shares the details. Have you heard the news? We are officially on YouTube. Come check out a few videos have have and give me a follow! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoAdrkPZmveJt5AQRDk8WA --- Lance Graulich Franchise Consulting Services from ION Franchising Eye On Franchising
Our guest on the show today is Brent Dowling. Brent has a unique background that you get to hear about during this episode.
The focus today though is Brent’s history at building multiple brand through a growing franchise company of just a few units into an industry leading organization requires the precise combination of marketing, sales and organizational strategy.
After building Raintree Brent discovered Voodoo Brewing company and he was hooked.
What started as a simple brewing operation and pub in Meadville, PA has evolved into one of the top-rated breweries in the country, and now their taking the laid-back pub atmosphere, delicious eats, and- of course- the liquid to cities all over the U.S.
When you break it down, there are some damn good reasons why smart people invest in a Voodoo Brewing Co. brewpub franchise. and Brent Dowling shares the details.
Have you heard the news? We are officially on YouTube. Come check out a few videos have have and give me a follow!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwoAdrkPZmveJt5AQRDk8WA
---
Franchise Consulting Services from ION Franchising
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
franchisees, franchise, franchising, brands, voodoo, people, franchise owners, franchisor, beer, folks, calls, candidates, community, understand, restaurant, day, culture, bit, corporate america, pub
SPEAKERS
Brent Dowling, Lance Graulich
Lance Graulich00:06
Hello everyone and welcome back to another fabulous episode of Eye On Franchising. I am your host, Lance Graulich. And today, Yes, you guessed it a special guest. This is a really special guy that I know very well. And boy, we're going to talk about it. So he was the youngest Australian representative at the United Nations. Yes, Australian Don't Don't call him British or anything else like that. He left that career after he fell in love with of all things franchising, which we're going to hear about. And today he's a franchisor, a multi brand franchisor as well as being a franchisee, and he's CEO of Raintree. And his name is Brent Dowling. And Brent is also the franchisor of voodoo Brewing Company, which we're going to be talking about today. Welcome, Brent.
Brent Dowling00:58
Good day Lance. Thanks for having me, man.
Lance Graulich01:02
It is awesome to have you here. And I look forward to really diving into everything Brent and everything beer today. So welcome to the show. Why don't you start with the history of brands in franchising? How did you end up with the United Nations in the first place? And let's give us that little little history.
Brent Dowling01:22
Yeah, I guess the short story I, I came to the States originally as a competitive snowboarder. And rather than drinking my nights away, like a lot of my colleagues at the time did, I nailed that a few degrees, a couple of them were international relations. So in snowboarding, you're a veteran when you're 19 or 20. Like it's crazy, get down, you're washed up. And so hit that age and got done with snowboarding and applied to work at the Australian mission to the UN. That was the dream job at the time, right, I was gonna make a difference in the world go to the UN and help the world become a better place. Turns out it's far more ceremonial than actually in any impact really being made there on a regular basis. And I learned that I guess a funny story is I got invited to represent Australia at the UN disarmament conference, big conference, right? And there's a lot of brands there. And I'm sorry, about a country's there, all of them. And I'm this kid I walk in I'm 30, probably 30-40 years younger than the average representative of a diplomat there. And I remember walking in the first day, a lot of the countries are looking at me like what are Australia doing? So I sat down and I thought none and I got this. By day four or five, they will literally arguing about the placement on the period and this document that they were discussing. And I was so bored. I was flipping through the different languages. And I remember at the time I was on an African language, and I'm like, Oh, God, this is exciting. This is a good one. And the Austrian guy next to me, looks at me real funny. And then I'm like, What is he looking at these Europeans? And then, sure enough, a few more countries looked at me. Maybe a minute, little less than that the whole of the UN General Assembly staring at Australia. And I'm thinking, Oh, no, they asked us a question. And I was listening in a different language. And that was probably the first hint that I wasn't really cut out for that diplomatic kind of bureaucratic life. And so went back to school, got an MBA came across franchisees and coursework, found it to be super interesting. Finished the MBA moved back to the States got the first job in franchising Ikuti what
Lance Graulich03:37
are they teaching college about? Franchising? That just popped up somewhere? There was a chapter dedicated to it.
Brent Dowling03:44
Yeah, it was. It was like the tiniest little bit of course, we're gonna it was a variety of different business models from licensing and franchising and corporate growth, etc. And, yeah, that was the first first time I ever saw it. And you hear it right Lance all the time. People like I thought franchising was just McDonald's, and you unpack it and realize it's this incredible, wonderful, beautiful giant industry that fuels almost everything. Yeah. Yep.
Lance Graulich04:11
Exactly. So keep going. Sorry. I cut you off over there.
Brent Dowling04:16
Well, yeah, so I guess Yeah, so I took that first job. It was like an entry level marketing job for a popcorn retail franchisor here in Boulder, Colorado, and they hired me a brand new to franchising really, they hired me to do the marketing, the marketing on both sides for the development side, and then for the consumer side, right to help the franchisees and then they hired my partner. Now Mike Edwards, who is the president and co owner of Raintree to do the sales together. We took them from five to three or 400 units in just under a few years and two things happened at that time for me that kind of brought me here today. The first thing was, as I said, I got to work a little bit on the consumer side and so I got to, like see and learn about these franchisees on a deeper level. Like once they signed an agreement, I got to watch them open their business, I got to listen to them talk about how their life had changed in such a dramatic way from most of them being under the corporate ladder, most of them having those golden handcuffs to just the fun they were having with this popcorn franchise. The money they were making for a young kid at the time, he was like, Man, you can make that much money in a popcorn franchise running popcorn franchises. And so I started to like, really understand the model and see it in a different way and get attracted to it from that way too. I was watching along thinking man, I'd like to do that. And so at the same time, we had a lot of franchise brands saw what we did with Doc popcorn, and we were getting job offers at various brands saying hey, can you want to come and work and you do want to come and do that for us? And we thought, well, you know, what we did is kind of unique, but I think we could scale it and help more than one brand this time? Why don't we give it a crack and see if we're right. And so we started Raintree for the few brands it worked? Well, all of them? Well, most of the first few did that what they were supposed to do. We weren't some hard lessons and built a franchise development company from that, ultimately, that's what Raintree does. Now today, right? We identify really strong brands, elite brands with really strong unit level economics. And we can talk about all those things later, perhaps but we look with select brands to find the right franchisees for them and grow them very responsibly, but often pretty quickly, too.
Lance Graulich06:31
I love it. Yeah, and the franchise biz a franchise world in general, people don't realize how large it is. You mentioned McDonald's, which is something that tends to come up in every one of my podcasts because so many people in America, just think of McDonald's. And that's where franchising begins and ends. A lot of my franchise deals today as a franchise broker under $150,000 or $150,000, in less, you know, so Home Service brands and kids brands, whatever it might be, it's not just restaurants, all of that is a dominant sector or segment as well as personal care. You know, personal care is another big one. So let's, let's talk let's switch gears and talk about voodoo. So Voodoo is one of the great brands that's in the rain tree family and you are the franchisor so let's dive in into voodoo. Today. There's not very many brewery type franchises. So how did that come about? What attracted you to Voodoo and talk about that relationship?
Brent Dowling07:32
Yeah, absolutely. They they came to Raintree look at this, somehow, they tried to grow the franchise for a couple of years. I think they started in 2018. And over two or so years, they were able to bring in two franchisees but like most franchisors and franchise brands, right? The the idea of growing a national company and finding the right franchisees is a lot easier said than done. And so they rocked up to Raintree. And what I like what honestly, I'm Australian, and they're beer related. And those two things typically go pretty well together. So I was really into interested in the idea of a brewing concept certainly like craft beer, and I we got into it, we brought them on as a Raintree brand. For for the reasons that you know, Lance to right, like, certainly when you think of a brewery operation, what came to my mind was, Wow, I'm gonna need 1,000,002 million, 3 million bucks to do it, I get it really cool beer top 50 rated international beer. Awesome. And I don't have that type of capital to open one, two or three of those. And as we dug in and learn more, we realized it was a really intelligent model, the craft the all the brewing is done by the master brewer at our home location in Pennsylvania. And it shipped so these are some of the best beers in the world. But they shipped to the craft to the brewpubs of the franchise owners. And they just get to be the heroes that sell this extremely high rated beer and well known and loved to be. And then it just kept getting smarter and smarter. From there, we dug in and realize they were ahead of the times really they built this model. It's probably 15 years in the making, but the franchise model list a few years prior to 2018 when developing it. And what they did is, they mimic the European beer hall cafe style thing, which ultimately means that you order your food drinks at the bar and you go and pick it up at the counter. Why is that important? Why do I think that's intelligent? Well, it means you only need for six people to run a pub. You don't have waitstaff you don't have all these things that funnily enough in the years following that caused a lot of pain to to restaurant franchise owners. And we've never had to deal with that. And so that was the really the second thing is is just the simplicity of operations, lower overhead, higher profits, all those things that we love and so they did get hit by the pandemic, right like every food franchise every type of operation in that realm, most of us have to kind of shut our doors to their during during COVID. And then obviously stung them. And we saw how great the model was, we saw we hadn't really kicked off the national franchising program yet, but we saw that, you know, they were looking at the idea of saying, well, maybe we should not invest in a national franchise program. As you know, Lance, it's not cheap to go out and market a franchise nationally, I don't think folks understand the amount of resources it takes to put the brand on the map, and filter through all the candidates to find the right ones. It's a lot of money and they thought, man, we're scared we've got the kind of the doors are shut here. We don't know when they're going to open again, we don't know when this this pandemic thing is going to be be closed, we sort of said, Look, we will have this, we're confident in the rain tree team's ability to continue to find the right people, even when your doors are shut. And I'm so confident that let us fund it, let us buy it, let us invest in it. And so that was over about a year ago. Now we finalize that and have been franchising nationally sense. And sure enough, the Raintree team has done what they what they were supposed to do. And then some we asked them to find a six great franchise owners in the first year, again, in a pandemic environment, and they found 20 For us, and it's just been going crazy. So that's kind of the backstory there on how that came about.
Lance Graulich11:20
You know, you you hit on something so important. I with my with the help of local franchise attorneys, I helped quite a few people in a brand setup a franchise system. And a lot of times they'll ask me, What's the hardest thing I said, Well, when you know you have a good concept that you're willing to share with the world. The next thing you have to do really, aside from setting up the system is finding your first few amazing franchisees. So it's funny, you just brought that up, people underestimate. You know, it's like building a fraternity, if you will or sorority, you have to have a few good people coming along for the ride that share your vision. And people underestimate that this business like a marriage is all about relationships, and it's all about people. Sure having a concept that works is important. But that seems to be the easier part in some instances. So, share, share a little bit about that. So you've been franchising Vudu, you've been in ownership for about a year. And it's been franchising a little bit longer than that. So how many sold? And how many open roughly right now?
Brent Dowling12:36
I would say 30 something. I own a a doggy daycare franchise, too. So you always see dogs in a Raintree. But yeah, I think we've got 12 opened thus far and probably, I don't know, 40 or 50 in development from there right now
Lance Graulich12:57
you're 50 and development, figured don't want to hold on to it.
Brent Dowling13:03
Oh, no, I was just gonna use us sort of talking before about, you know, the, the challenge of finding those first few franchisees and I couldn't agree with you more, I got a some data put on my desk the other day and looked clean. It looks good data too. But it certainly showed that 67% I think it is 67 Maybe 68. Don't quote me exactly, let's, but let's say 67% of franchisors fail to recruit a single franchisee within their first two years of the program means the great majority just can't find them. It's not easy. And it's a testament to the brands that do and also the testament to the franchisees that find that right match to a lot of times for both sides, it doesn't work out. And that's why it's so worth celebrating, especially young brands on the rise. And so exciting for both sides.
Lance Graulich13:51
So you gave you gave some special elements to Voodoo, you know, the European style beer hall, there is a great menu as well. That's not just typical bar food, right. So talk a little bit about the food.
Brent Dowling14:05
Yeah, they do such a good job. It's a pretty eclectic menu, they call it we like to call it elevated pub foods as some of the things that you'll see on a typical pub menu. Just don't different venues kind of a weird brand, right? And they embrace that. It's about it's about that right? And so they do a lot of really cool things, a lot of the beers used in the cooking and a lot of the different beer brands. So folks who most people that frequent review do end up going back and back and becoming a fanatic and loving one or two specific types of beers and then they'll see that that brand of beer will also be used in the chicken parm or whatever it is on the menu to see the actual beer they love and people love that. So yeah, we've got we've got a couple great shifts. Now we have a couple of folks on the support team that are just dedicated to working with the franchise owners, helping them craft the right menu for the location. One of the cool things about verde that I was really attracted to is, you know, franchising. Some people get scared by that cookie cutter. This is exactly how we do things. And you better do it this way. And for the most part, people understand why that is. And it makes sense for some people or a lot of people. For some people, it doesn't. It's the deal breaker, man, I want this to feel like my own a little bit. And voodoo does that they they do that in a way where in so many different ways. As I said, the chef will work with every franchise owner to say, hey, what's special to your local market? What do you think people lack here? And how can we do it a little different. And let's build that menu together based on the success what we've seen in others. Let's individualize it for you. The voodoo logo, right, like so this is one t shirt. One basic logo. But this is a pub, one of the newest pubs Westpac every single franchisee works with our artists to create their own 30 logos specific to their community. And that's a really cool thing. They work and they they create all types of art designed to reflect and embrace and to demonstrate what what's cool about their community. And it's just that anti cookie cutter element that a lot of people be part of why I think the brand is growing so quickly, people are really, really attracted to it from the menu to all the little things that matter.
Lance Graulich16:23
So who are these franchisees? I you know, I've asked this type of question before, and it never ceases to amaze me that franchisees of any brands seem to come from all walks of life, I'm guessing voodoo, is no different. Tell me about the first six or so franchisees that signed up or signed on that you accepted or awarded franchises to? They were, you know, from all walks of life, what did they do before voodoo? And why voodoo?
Brent Dowling16:57
Yeah, I love this question. You know, I remember when you came to Raintree, and train to train my team on kinda, the art of finding the right people for the right brands. And you talked about this a little bit. And it's true, we're seeing it a router you talked about. It's really about matching the right person with the right skills to the right brand. And sometimes, you know, I think folks can get a little too focused on their passion and thinking that because they're passionate about something, that they're going to be a successful franchise owner in it. And they're often mutually exclusive things right. And so why I say that is we do get a lot of folks there commonality is folks that love craft beer, and they think Man, I could own a business where I get to talk craft beer all day. That's uptake. That's a plus that there's been many of folks, we've had to say, I just don't know if you've got what the skill sets needed in order to be successful in this business. And for that reason, we're going to have to say I'm so sorry, but we're going to part ways. And so what are those things that were they're looking for? I think the biggest thing is really community focused people. Craft beer is truly a community. It's about gathering community and celebrating good food and good beer and good cocktails. And if you're not intrinsically attached to the idea of being a leader in your community, and fostering community within your community, that makes any sense. You may not do as well as some of the owners that we're seeing here. Just just just just kick it rock and roll right now. So community, food and beverage experience is not essential. But it's a plus. Right? If you if you've had experience, if you've worked in a restaurant, if you really understand what that looks like it's a plus. And I certainly think that team leadership as well for extended ran teams, whether they've come from corporate America and a senior role, middle middle manager role, any type of role there we see folks come with, and I think we see a combination of you know, community, food and or team leadership management skills. You see a pretty eclectic mix there. We had the last discovery day we had a franchise consultant, which is obviously a good sign when experts come in to say, hey, I want to buy one of those. But we had an investment banker to somebody that had ran restaurants their whole lives, the investment banker never really done that. pretty eclectic mix. One thing that you'll find is I think by design, it's about the culture for us more than any of that and you know, you walk in the support team is there to greet everybody. Nine out of 10 of them are in like a tank top and flip flops while they're on the brewery compound there. And if that excites you if that's the type of of tribe of squad you want to be around then yeah, Voodoo is for you if if you're a little perplexed why these guys as successful as they are not in suits and ties then it probably isn't the right culture for you.
Lance Graulich19:49
I love it. That's that's a fun culture for sure. So talk a little bit about the selection process. I mean, obviously, the way it starts is whether somebody comes across your website because they saw Something exciting on social media. Maybe they visited a location or they came through a franchise broker like myself. At some point they start the process, talk a little bit about that process, all the way up to discovery day and awarding franchises.
Brent Dowling20:17
Yes, so we do, we do some pretty unique in franchising. So, of course, a large, a significant part of our franchise system is brought to us by franchise consultants by itself, we love those because we know they're coming in well educated, less work for my development team, they know for the most part, they're well prepared, and they understand what they're getting into. We also advertise the brand nationally, through the standard channels of Facebook's, etc. But we also use industry specific channels to which we don't see many franchise brands do. Like we're on craft beer websites, we're in communities there and in the craft beer community advertising it there. So we get a lot of folks coming in. So that what that does is, is it does change the process a little bit, because you get a lot of folks, and this is kind of my favorite thing, by the way right now. And I'll explain why. When you get somebody that's come in, is not really looking for a franchise, and I'm sure you see this too. And so we come in and they're like, back to our conversation before I thought what food is a franchise? I thought it was just for places like McDonald's? Well, no, do it actually. There's all these industries. And so you have to explain it and make sure they're educated on franchising in general. And I think that's really fun. Because peoples are especially encouraged in the current world, right, where you've got people becoming more deflated by corporate America and understanding they're just a cog in the system. And they're starting to be enlightened by what they're actually doing ads to get by it. And a lot of these folks that come across a franchise opportunity like video and a non franchising channel, they're isolated out when when you tell them when they understand this, folks that, especially when they speak to the franchise owners a mess or hear things like yeah, man I was I was in that grind, too. It's like I was miserable. I didn't know how miserable I was. Now I get to run my own paths. I have a team, I'm embedded in my community. And by the way, I'm making more money than I've ever made combined in the last few years. In corporate America, they hear these things and they're just it's the same comment every time. Wow, I didn't know this there was franchising them as a model.
Lance Graulich22:25
Why don't I do a kind of take?
Brent Dowling22:27
Right, right. And, you know, we're pretty pumped on it. It's kind of the mission. Now arranger is not only to make sure that we're really, really good at matching the right franchisees to the best franchisors, but how can we do our bit to further, just general knowledge and understanding and awareness and franchising for the millions of Americans out there that are miserable in corporate America that are sitting in traffic all day and sitting in their cube, and the best part of their day is checking their phone when their bosses are watching. And, and when you get those people out of that it feels like a matrix, right, especially in a brand like voodoo, because like you're unplugging them. And so we want to do our bit to learn to get better on these other channels. So we can help more people understand that, while it's not for everyone, it is for a lot of people. And so that's all around the rantin way of saying, yeah, we've got kind of a process where we have to educate in franchising, and then once they get it, it's rockin and rollin. It's the standard process of older things, you know, they go through an FTD speak to owners come to discovery day, etc.
Lance Graulich23:27
Well, I guess the easy part is when you get them face to face, finally, you know, you have a beer with them. You can tell instantly, even if you haven't met them prior, you personally I'm sure can tell that this is somebody that is right, that will fit in the culture of voodoo, whether they were a school teacher, or an investment banker or restaurant manager, you can tell probably fairly quickly, are they do have the hospitality chops so to speak, or the the ability to be a voodoo franchisee? I'm sure that's the case, right?
Brent Dowling24:00
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, culture is the hard one like so you know, all the things that we're looking for it's franchise laws, and that you're looking in your clients to match the best brands. The skill sets are easy. If there's a little passion there that works for a particular segment. Yeah, that's easy, we probably got options for you, so long as you've got the skill sets, the culture is a little harder to define. And I often get asked that, you know, by some of the candidates that we work with, too, and how do I understand if I'm a right if I'm a good fit for the culture? I mean, to me, ultimately, it's spending the time speaking to enough wrenches. And as certainly if you get to that you get that invite spending the day or more with the franchise brand, asking questions, asking questions. Ultimately, you're trying to understand, you know, what value what values do these people have? What are their goals? Ultimately, you're asking and you're trying to understand, do we see the world the same way right? Do we communicate in a similar way? There's all these little things that are different to every person. And ultimately, it's one of those things that isn't quite tangible. I feel like if you do the homework, if you listen to your franchise consultant, if you truly ask enough questions and do the homework that the brand is asking you to, in your heart of hearts, you'll know if you're a culture fit or not.
Lance Graulich25:16
Yeah, absolutely. And it was Steve Jobs, I think was the one that always said he wanted to break bread with, you know, a key employee or executive. And once he knows he had a meal with them, and it could tell how they treat the server in the restaurant, if it's a nicer restaurant, or what have you, you know how that person's going to be as an employee, you know, whether they're going to be a culture fit or not. So if all the Zoom calls fail, by the time you get them face to face, you figure it out, I'm sure.
Brent Dowling25:44
Absolutely. So either the Zoom discovery day got big because it had to during COVID. And no, one of the brands that we worked with worked with sort of said, Hey, I feel like they worked well, can we just keep doing those? I think for the most part, it was coming from a place of efficiencies, it was just a lot easier. You didn't have to, you know, travel and all these things. And our advice at the end of the day was look, this is at least a 10 year relationship. There's something to be said, like you said, on the Steve Jobs side, there's something to be said about shaking someone's hand and looking them in the eye if you're truly trying to find a culture fit. I don't know if that can be replicated as well on Zoom. So we were pretty quick to say you can but we wouldn't.
Lance Graulich26:30
Yeah, yeah, there's a difference between good and great. So I don't know if you can really have a great discovery day over zoom. But it can be done. Let's talk about economics. So what is the average obviously, disclaimer for everyone listening and playing along at home, listening to this episode. You know, in the restaurant space, or in the food space, there's a certainly a big difference between a vanilla shell taken over a fresh space that's never been inhabited before, versus potentially a second generation space that you get to convert. But having said all that, and of course with supply chain issues and everything else the world has experienced, what is what is voodoo like today, on average, what's the square footage, investment all in? Etc?
Brent Dowling27:20
Yeah, yeah, the square footage, typically four to 5000 square feet were looking for in terms of a brew pub, the investment range is 350 to 700. Somewhere around there. We've got to your point conversions. We've had a couple of those. And they've been significantly less than the lower. I won't state those numbers, because legal schmegle my attorneys will yell at me. But what we're really seeing on average right now is is a probably a half million to get the first brewpub up and running in about four or 5000 square feet.
Lance Graulich27:53
And are most people getting financing. I'm assuming most people don't have 500,000 sitting in the bank they want to part with
Brent Dowling28:01
Yeah, absolutely. Most people. Here we're looking at about 25% down to secure the funding for the rest of the first locationand going from there, it's interesting. So we don't have an item 19 Purely because it's been the first full year of franchising. There were corporate pubs that were more like satellites to the brewing facility and probably not a fair representation of what a franchisee would be. So we wanted to play it safe and didn't have it. We will have it next year. Again, there's there's legal considerations here. When our candidates get to validation, and they hear some of the numbers being put out by a franchise owners, they're often shocked in a good way. And I'll leave it at that just to be safe. But
Lance Graulich28:44
no, but let's let's talk about your validation process, just in general terms. Do you give prospective franchisees a list of all your franchisees are their group calls? How do you do validation for voodoo?
Brent Dowling28:59
Yeah, we try to organize group calls, like you've seen a lot of a lot of times, Lance, you've got more prospective owners, then you've got open franchisees. And so to be respectful of the time we try and do a weekly, a weekly call where we get everybody on all the candidates that are in that phase and they get to ask away and validation is fantastic right now. There's just so much excitement across the entire brand and it's pretty obvious when you jump on those calls. Certainly we do offer for candidates that feel like they didn't get their questions answered in that we try to facilitate one on ones and help them as best we can to get as much information from the owners as possible. So ultimately it's group calls first and if needed, some one on one calls. Quite frankly we don't have to do many of those one on one calls. The group calls have been pretty effective. A lot of the questions are similar so most candidates feel like they're getting their answers.
Lance Graulich29:55
Yeah, I love validation. I explained to my candidates My clients how valuable it is there. Some people are so apprehensive at the beginning of the process. They don't know what they're looking for. They're not sure what's good for them. And as you mentioned earlier, and I mentioned often, you know, your skills are transferable. So it's about getting somebody comfortable and confident that they really can do this and don't have to, you know, can escape that w2 job and do it on their own. But validation really helps because people do see themselves as that individual, they're speaking to us, like, Wait a second. Brent was like me, I can do that Brent hated his job and he had X amount of dollars, and he got a loan just like our strategy is and and you can obviously see it. So it's a beautiful process that a lot of people don't even know exist. And in franchising, you know, they think they think it's this magical thing, you have a call with McDonald's, and you slide your credit card, and you're a franchisee, right?
Brent Dowling30:58
Yeah, exactly. And it's interesting to in validation. Like the surprises that come up. So one of the the the perceptions that our candidates have, they kind of think of it as well, I'd love to do one, maybe even three, that's probably half a million for one 1.5. That's a lot of cash to fork out. When you understand that the relationships we have with funding and how you can scale it. For example, on the last call, a candidate asked when are you opening? Or when do you plan and what year do you plan to open your second location? This gentleman's only been open for about a month or two. And he said, I'm almost signing my second loi right now I'm signed my second loi hone in on the leaks. And he explained that, you know, he got funding, you already is cashflow positive in the second month, he's rolling that straight into the down payment for the second location. And I think that folks, yeah, when they understand the kind of the relationships that franchising has, is unique. They also often learn that franchising has got a huge advantage over say, starting your own craft brewery franchise business or starting your anything, insert anything business, because banks have a history of financial performance evidence of successful replication, they can point to strong leadership, they can they understand the systems involved, and ultimately, they understand when they're lending out money, they're placing bets, and their bets are better placed on franchise brands. But there's evidence of this being done successfully many times. And I think folks are often surprised to see the relationships and that whole process of, of getting funding, the SBA loans can take a long time, but the countless other options that are available to them, and again, the willingness of banks to fund their new business purely because it's a franchise, and that's kind of one that, you know, we try and do a decent job of, but the franchisees validate that better than anything, and it's cool to see,
Lance Graulich32:55
yeah, I'll place your bets on a franchise, it's pretty much a sure thing when you pick the right one, right? That's all right. So Brent, give us give us some final thoughts and words of wisdom for those listening at home, you just, you just dropped a bucket of thoughts on people, but at an interview more, I mean, for the people that are apprehensive, which is most of America, you know, we're going through some interesting times now. And in the food business, especially alcohol related, seems to do incredibly well during recessionary times. But barring that just franchising in general, why a franchise? You gave some good nuggets on the financing side? But why specifically, what if somebody has an idea to start their own thing? What do you tell them?
Brent Dowling33:44
Yeah, I mean, sometimes I tell them, It's better, right? But you have to ask a lot of questions. And ultimately, and honestly, it's not usually the case. It here's where, where if you are considering doing your own thing, it may be better it may if you're a true entrepreneur, right? And there are very very few of those out there. I barely consider myself one I really honestly question it. Still not still not decided if I would label myself that yet or not. But if you are one, chances are you're not gonna be happy in a franchise the the the mechanisms of support and control and hey, this is the way we've done it because it's successful, and it's making everyone successful, we want you and need you to do it this way. An entrepreneur is not going to like that. They'd rather do it their way and fail, right? And that's totally okay or succeed. And so we look for that, if that's, you know, a big part of why you're wondering, should I just do this on my own is the royalty and franchise fee worth it? Yeah, if you're a true bred brand entrepreneur, then then maybe if you're not like the great majority of us, chances are that a franchise is going to bring you a better value in starting the business. It's certainly you hear a lot of numbers out there. You've seen a lot of nonsense about franchising as a 95% success rate. I think that's nonsense. I think the jury's out on what those numbers really are, it's hard to determine, as someone that's been around this industry long enough, I certainly believe that your your your dramatically increases your chance of success with a franchise, but they still fail. And they fail often, in my opinion, because you didn't understand the true skill sets needed to be successful, you probably didn't really understand that the top performing franchisees, the majority of the system that are all doing well, why were they doing well? What skills did they have? And how are they applying those? And like we talked about in sometimes the scenario is you just not a culture fit and the communication with the franchisor isn't there? So if you can really work to to understand, do I have the skills and do I fit the culture, then yeah, I'm a massive advocate of doing it with a franchise. Again, I'm not I'm not the smartest guy. I'm a snowboarder, right? I came here as an Aussie snowboarder, and in 10 years, certainly I say this to my team and said to my franchisees, and the folks that asked me, Brent, should I own a franchise, but I'm really not that sharp and probably have average intelligence. I just happen to fall in love with franchising, ask enough questions. And I've been able to build in leverage that our own franchise brands become a franchisee of a few different concepts and have a franchise development company. I don't think there's any other industry where any idiot like me could have could have found that same, same sort of growth path. And I think franchising for it every day, it's a beautiful thing. So, I mean, that's kind of skills and culture, you find those, it's hard to get wrong.
Lance Graulich36:42
Well, it sounds to me like we didn't, I didn't officially bring up the obsessed with franchising piece, but I think you just, it was self evident that answer, the average person doesn't have an original idea that really needs to be born, where they truly have the skill set to sort of produce that or manifest that, if you will. So, franchising is going to be the next best thing for the majority of America is that far, it is fair to say.
Brent Dowling37:11
Yeah, I think so. And I think, you know, those of us that become obsessed with it, which is, you know, most of the people that I work with, and the network that I have, you know, when I think about it all the time, right? Because oftentimes, again, I wake up and I think How did this happen? How did an idiot like me get to work with these brands? And how brands grow like this? How did I end up here? And so I've spent some time dissecting it. And I think that, you know, when I boil it down for at least my own experience, and the partners and the franchisees I work with, the big thing is community, right, where we, I believe are a breed of folks that have goals for ourselves and want better lives and all the things right, that's very common across the United States. But there seems to be this intrinsic theme of community we're involved in, in us. And it's, it's it's wanting to win, but to win with a team and to do it with a team. And I think that, you know, if you're a person that likes the idea of community that understands the need to tap into it to learn from those around you are humble or coachable. And also really thrive by the team win by seeing your fellow franchisees hit, hitting your records and milestones and truly being happy for them and then taking those learnings and apply them to yourself all these things. And when I boil it down, I think it's I like community. And I think that if you like community too, it's a good, good hit that you're on the right path.
Lance Graulich38:38
I love it. Well Brent on that note, perfect place to end it. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom Brent Dowling, CEO of rain tree franchisor of voodoo Brewing Company and more. Thanks for being here. Cheers, lads. Thanks so much.